Awhile back I came across a class by AASHE (The Association for the Advancement of Sustainability in Higher Education) that was uncannily up my alley. It was called Climate Anxiety to Action: Tools to Build a Radical Imagination and it was taught by Kat Davis. It turned out that Kat Davis happened to be the Climate Justice Advisor for the very school district my son goes to school in, Portland Public Schools. So of course I connected and we grabbed coffee. And later, Kat and I sat down to have this conversation so that you all can hear more about her approach to climate education and specifically about radical imagination. You can follow Kat’s Envision Our Futures project on Instagram.
Resources from the episode:
- by
Emergent Strategy by adrienne maree brown
A Field Guide to Climate Anxiety by Sarah Jaquette Ray
All We Can Save ed. by Ayana Elizabeth Johnson and Katharine K. Wilkinson
This Change Everything: Capitalism vs. Climate Change by Naomi Klein
Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
Credits:
Cramming for the Apocalypse artwork by Amanda Burnham
Music by DayFox
Transcript
Elizabeth: Hi everybody. Thank you for listening to this podcast slash audio version of the cramming for apocalypse newsletter. And with me today, I have Kat Davis, who is the advisor for climate justice at Portland Public Schools.
And I'm really excited to have you. Thanks for coming, Kat.
Kat: Thanks for having me.
Elizabeth: Let's just start by having you tell us a little bit about yourself. What's your role and what's your journey to get to where you are now? Absolutely. So as you mentioned, I'm the advisor for climate justice with Portland Public Schools.
And my role is to oversee the implementation of our climate crisis response, climate justice and sustainable practices policy, which was 2022. It's a [00:01:00] really widespread overreaching policy that encompasses a commitment to greenhouse gas reduction. Reducing our energy, water, waste, transportation costs and emissions, but also has a real intentional focus on resilience for our community or the mental health and wellness of our students, as well as student and staff engagement and empowerment in addition to climate literacy.
So it's a the climate crisis response policy is a wide reaching policy that encompasses pretty much every department at Portland public schools and really takes the. Opportunity to collaborate with our students and our teachers and our staff and our community to make sure that this comes into the full realization, and I started in June of 2022 so I got to start after this policy had already been adopted and was, you know, people were really excited to see some momentum move forward with this, so I got to just kind of dive right into it and, you know, take it from there and start listening to our [00:02:00] community and our staff to really see what this was going to look like on the ground.
That's awesome. And what have you seen in the last year? Like what is the, have you seen progress? Have you seen challenges?
Kat: Absolutely. So. It's interesting because Portland Public Schools has had a commitment to climate action for decades. So this policy didn't necessarily start climate action at PPS. Rather, it created a framework and a structure to really elevate and build intentionality and systemic, you know, a systemic commitment to integrating climate action and climate justice into everything that we do. So the interesting part about it has been, you know, I spent the first year really listening and Digging into the history of different strands of work at PPS really starting to understand what was already working really well, what were some projects that were maybe passion projects of the past that didn't have the sustainable structure or funding source to keep [00:03:00] them going.
And then what are the gaps that we need to fill to make sure that this policy is really moving forward at the pace that matches the urgency of the issues at hand. So there is a lot of opportunity in seeing what's already going well, but then there's also a lot of challenges of trying to track down who does what .
I mean, it's a big organization. We've got 81 schools, 45, 000 students. So it's a, it's a beast to see and try and understand what all the different pathways are for action. And then at the same time, we're dealing with real emergent challenges of the climate crisis is already happening. So our students are feeling the weight of that.
Our buildings are struggling with the heat and the cold because our infrastructure is on average a hundred years old and it was a hundred conditioning and a lot of buildings and our teachers and our students and our staff are all kind of grappling with these challenges. In the day to day as we're also trying to mitigate our further impact on climate change, so it's definitely a lot of trying to do the mitigation [00:04:00] and adaptation work at the same time, which is difficult when we're trying to prioritize, but also gives us a lot of opportunity when we're thinking about how we can move forward to not only reduce our impact on climate change, but. Also prepare for a world that is already experiencing these challenges.
Elizabeth: Yeah, gosh, just thinking of all the different types of needs under this, I can't imagine how many different hats you have to wear. You have facilities to education, those are two different jobs. I'm curious about how you manage that.
Kat: Yeah, it's interesting because they are very different fields of work. But at the end of the day, you know, at Portland public schools, all of our staff are considered educators, right? So when we're looking at building a new building I heard this at a conference recently, which I thought was fantastic, which is that if you're, you know, just did a really great solar project at a elementary school and you talk to a second grader and they can't tell you the cool solar project you just did, and you haven't done enough.
As part of your facilities building plan. And so if we can really look at our infrastructure and our [00:05:00] facilities as real living, learning lab opportunities for our students, then we can really start to understand how intimately our facilities and our curriculum can be connected into like this really holistic experience of what showing students what it can look like to have a future of climate solutions, right. On the ground of like where they go to school, which I think is the ultimate goal.
Elizabeth: That's so cool. And this is not a common position in public schools right?
Kat: Yeah, it's a, it's kind of a unicorn position right now. But I think in terms of a lot of public schools will have a sustainability director or person in the facilities office, you know, so it'll, or they'll, or they might have somebody in the curriculum side of the house that's focusing Climate change into the curriculum that you often see that that more of like a state level.
And my position is really unique because I actually report to the chief of staff. And so it's considered, you know, I'm reporting to leadership and it's a [00:06:00] centralized position where I'm placed strategically to be advising our leadership team on how to move our organization forward together on how to not only meet our organization forward together. Graduate portrait goals, but also meeting those goals through the lens of climate justice. So really integrating this into the work that we do.
Elizabeth: That's so cool. I meant to ask this kind of earlier, kind of dig into earlier, but if we can kind of go back a little bit and talk about how you came to this role, like, what is your what was your journey to get. To this position and to and in climate justice in general apps.
Kat: That's a great question. I guess it depends on how far back we want to go. So kind of a. This is all relevant so I'll kind of start with. I was a very passionate activist high schooler, and this is like very related to this other, all of this work that I'm doing.
[00:07:00] So I grew up in Boise, Idaho, and in middle and high school, I got really involved in social justice movements, specifically in creating safe spaces for LGBTQ kids in Idaho. And In this time period, while I was really engaged in learning about social justice issues, I took a phenomenal environmental science class.
I transparently took it because it was the only AP class that didn't have a lab. But I didn't grow up with like a girdle of family. We didn't really recycle or like hike or things like that. I just was like, this is a cool class that I want to, you know, check out. And the teacher did such a phenomenal job of connecting environmental justice with social justice and talking about these larger systems and structures and ecology and the way it works together that I just became my mind was blown with like, Oh, my gosh, this is a whole side of injustices that I've never even learned about before. And so I got the bug and ended up going to [00:08:00] the University of Colorado Boulder to pursue an environmental studies degree public health, really connecting the human environmental socioeconomic relationships with place and people through those different experiences.
And while I was at CU Boulder, they have an amazing environmental center where they employ students. To do just really cool work. And so I got to do some really cool peer to peer education and direct experience installing, you know, energy efficient and water efficient upgrades for renters and event planning and all this really cool stuff because I couldn't afford to live in Boulder. So I had to have like five jobs and some of those jobs got to be met through working with the university, doing things directly related to my career.
From that, I got the opportunity to work with the city of Boulder and then Boulder County after I graduated and all doing kind of these different types of sustainability work relating to understanding how different energy [00:09:00] and water systems work, building sustainability renter sustainability, connecting all about the public health.
It's a great place to be able to learn about all these different opportunities. And then in 2016, I ended up moving back to Boise to help out some family, and during my time there, I was like, okay, well, we'll see what Boise has to offer here in terms of sustainability related jobs, because they weren't quite as, as saturated a market as Boulder.
And eventually, I was able to land the opportunity to be the sustainability coordinator at Boise State University, which was like my dream to get to work at a university. Again, I love working with students and education. And at Boise State, it was something where they're like, nothing has really stuck with sustainability. So just start throwing things at a wall and see what sticks, right? Like, we just need something to land here. So I started building out some really great volunteer opportunities for students to go do, you know, recycling at football games and concerts. And that kind of is a great [00:10:00] gateway cause I like to call it into other higher level sustainability action.
And just do it during my time there, got this really wonderful, robust engagement program going with students and teachers and found that Pretty much everybody I talked to was enthusiastic and so excited about the innovative opportunities that come with reducing our impact on the planet and really caring for our land.
That is something that Idaho really has like land conservation and water conservation and air quality. Those are all things that people can get behind in a bipartisan way in that state. And so we were able to find a lot of allies and just real energy and momentum for moving those programs forward.
And during that time I found a really big passion for student leadership and really cultivating spaces for student voice and Understanding that the students are the ones that are experiencing our biggest impacts on climate change in a way that adults don't fully grapple with. I mean, [00:11:00] adults, I mean, our students at Boise State are adults too, because they're, you know, but like they have a different experience than the folks that have been in the bureaucratic system for, you know, decades that just don't see that opportunity for change.
And so they really come in with this great, fresh perspective and have zero patience for bureaucracy, which is wonderful and just really can help shape programs in a way that is really just vibrant and exciting. So I got really excited about that work. Did some great, there's some great people there doing the systems level change. And then when this opportunity came up in Portland my partner and I were looking to relocate anyways. And I saw this really wonderful opportunity to get connected to the school system, which is really leading the charge on this work and was really drawn to the fact that the policy does include an intentional approach to mental health and wellness.
While at Boise State, I also pursued a master's that led to the creation of a climate anxiety workshop where [00:12:00] we work on practicing a radical imagination for cultivating a future of climate solutions. And that was really inspired by getting to work with the students on the ground at Boise State and hearing what their challenges were.
And I thought, you know, if we can bring that kind of work to students at an even younger age when they can start practicing that radical imagination from, you know, second and third grade. Then I think they're going to be able to grapple with the changes that we're seeing in a much healthier way than what we're seeing with our students right now.
Elizabeth: Yeah. And actually, I mean, it's funny. I, we actually, we didn't even, I didn't come across you because you're in Portland. I Came across you because of the course that you are teaching for the association for advancement of sustainability and higher education on climate anxiety. So for anyone listening, it's called from climate anxiety to action tools to build a radical imagination.
And then it just so happened you were in [00:13:00] Portland and working for the very same district my son goes to school in I was so intrigued by the topic of your course. So can you, let's dive into that like topic of, you know, radical imagination and how that is an antidote to climate anxiety, or I don't know if antidote, but a way to a tool to push through climate anxiety. So can you tell me a little bit more about the concept? What is it about? What what is it?
Kat: Yeah, absolutely. So my workshop and the, the framework that I put together, it was really inspired by some fabulous women authors including Naomi Klein and Adrienne Maree Brown and bell hooks. And just the list goes on.
Adrienne Marie Brown has this really wonderful concept of she says all organizing is science fiction, where through the act of organizing and strategizing around action that we want to see in this world you're actively trying to create a world that doesn't yet exist. And I just thought that was such a beautiful idea.
I [00:14:00] personally really struggled with that anxiety in general, not just climate anxiety, but just anxiety. And know the power of being able to visualize and manifest the outcome that you're trying to get versus the one that you're so scared of happening and how calming that can be for your central nervous system to actually allow yourself to imagine a positive path forward.
And so the other author Sarah Jaquette Ray talks about how she worked with her students at the university where she teaches, and had asked them if they could imagine a future of climate solutions, and they had said, you know, I can't even imagine a future, a positive future, you know, that, that does not.
In my sight, that's not something that we have an example of in the media is a future of positive a positive future period, but even one of climate solutions. And so all of that really struck with me. I saw this at my own university as well. Students were really guilt ridden and shame ridden around their actions around climate change. And they also had a lot [00:15:00] of despair and distress that was coming from their work and what we were starting to see in some of the literature that I started to understand is how this idea around climate doom is really considered a fourth wave of climate denial. So first we have the idea that, you know, climate denial starts with climate change doesn't exist.
It's not real. It moves into, "well, you know, maybe it's real, but it's not human caused." Okay. So the third wave is, "well, maybe it's human caused, but it's not that big of a deal." And then the fourth wave now is "climate change is so severe that everyone's going to die and the world is going to end and like, there's nothing you can do about it."
Like it's too far down. And so you get the same effect in all of those different waves where people just feel totally paralyzed and disempowered to making action. And so my workshop starts to unpack the roots of climate change and climate as coming from, you know, historic systemic oppression and injustice, the same systems that lead [00:16:00] to other systems of oppression like through this term that Naomi Klein calls extractivism, where we're just constantly taking without caretaking, we move into this understanding of climate anxiety as this form of, disempowerment that has the same roots as the roots of climate change. And then we start to practice building a new way of understanding the world through different values that are more centered around community and hope and justice and actually create a physical image of what the future would look like if we were to build that world with those values in mind.
So we start to, we start By unpacking the values that have led to climate change and climate anxiety, we redefine the value that we want to design our world with. And then the thing that kind of brings the workshop together, and I think is the thing that I'm contributing, like I said, a lot of these concepts and ideas are not new.
But the thing that I'm trying to help people really take the next step when is actually creating a physical, almost collage or image. Well, it is digital in this case, because it's an online workshop, but [00:17:00] of what. The future can actually look like if we practice designing our local spaces or homes or schools or cities with those values in mind knowing that when we see them replicated on the small scale and understand the power that happens when we disrupt these systems, even at the like molecular level, so to speak, then it does have this larger scale effect.
And so at the end of all this too, I go through and I illustrate those different workshop outcomes because everybody has something totally different that they create with each workshop. They might like have redesigned a new apartment building or a, you know, suburban neighborhood, and then I'll go through and kind of illustrate what those look like and yeah, I've just been collecting those stories and illustrations through part of that process, which I hope to share someday.
Elizabeth: Yeah, I would love that. I think that like, I mean, that's something that I like in the part of this project that I'm on, I've found that like there also is like this rewiring of my brain [00:18:00] to see the possibilities. Cause it can be so hard when you're you know, we were just talking about 107 degree day in Boise when you, and like, you know, and, you know, these just severe weather events that we have seen so many of the summer that it can be really difficult to see the possibilities and, and it really does take, it takes that concerted time, that concerted, radical imagination to rewire your brain and really think differently. And I, you know, that's for me, it's been kind of a slow moving approach through by way of this book that I'm writing .
What I had hoped from it what are you seeing from others throughout the course? What are some, like, have you talked to folks who've taken the, the course before who really have, like, it's changed kind of their vision or view of the world and possibilities, or are you seeing that in real time with folks who are in the course now?
Kat: I think we're seeing it more in. [00:19:00] Real time in a way that's been really helpful. This course is special and unique because it is a two hour session once a month over six months. In the past, I've had to do these workshops as either like a three hour, one day intensive or like I've done it for students as like a two day 16 hour total workshop. And so it's really cool to see it. The concepts be able to build on each other and have people have time in between each session to really sit with the different materials and start to see how they can impact their lives.
Because what we're really talking about is developing a new framework for seeing possibilities and solutions and also understanding the way that we're talking about climate change is so important to the way that we feel. Effective and making change and understanding that all of this has an impact on our sense of resilience, which is climate.
Anxiety comes from a feeling of not being resilient to the change that we're [00:20:00] expecting. And so how can we really start to redesign the way that we interact with each other in the world? And also take some of the negative lens away from the way that we're seeing the world. To actually open our eyes to the solutions that are already taking place because it is a complete myth that like no action has happened and there's amazing things going on around us, you know, living in Portland I am just blown away every day by the connectivity and the commitment to innovation and action that I see around here. And it's really easy to get the negative goggles on and only see, you know, the things that are not going the way that we want them to.
So in terms of impact the, some of the folks I've talked to that have taken the course in the past past said that it was really helpful in rethinking the way that they're talking about calls the climate action, especially in such a way that we can, instead of being like, the world is ending, what are you going to do about it? Having it be like, Okay. [00:21:00] Let's build a new world together. And that's a totally different feeling that comes from those kinds of calls. Yeah, and I'm just excited. This has been going on for a year or so now. So I'm excited to continue connecting with people who've engaged with it and see if it's been how it's been helpful. And I think just like that practice of actually Tangibly like we can talk about. Oh, yeah, it's great to imagine a new future and stuff, but like actually forcing yourself to get down and actually play with designing it. I think as part of it, that can be really really impactful to get a sense of efficacy again.
Elizabeth: So one of the other things you've written, you wrote your you had sent me your thesis when we connected a while back on climate communications and bridging the hope gap. Can you tell me what you mean by the hope gap and what do you think are the communication solutions to bridging that gap? And is that something that kind of aligns with, with your concepts around radical imagination as well?
Kat: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's it's all it's all [00:22:00] connected. And so the hope gap concept comes from the Yale Project on Climate Communication director, Anthony Leiserowitz, has this concept about there's this gap between the severity of the scale of climate change and the way that we communicate it and the Ability for one person to feel like they are capable of making change.
And so there's this gap between what the level of scale that, you know, needs to happen and how effective you're going to be in making that happen. And so it's like this, this gap where. You can't have enough hope to get from point A to point B if you if that's the way it's communicated. Yeah. Does that make sense?
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's challenging because we're, there's so many contradictories and the way climate change is communicated, not contradictories. A lot of the intentional media directed at spurring change [00:23:00] is riddled with individual responsibility. And I'm not saying that that's not important, but the blame and the shame around it can just create this huge gap between, like, I can't, there's no way that I can do enough. And so the idea behind that, that radical imagination that adrienne maree brown talks about is really looking at how can we bridge this gap by collectively coming together and imagining what a future of climate solutions could look like.
And together we can imagine multiple futures of solutions and that's kind of the amazing part is because we have one image of like doom and gloom, flurry of burning buildings and like hurricanes and storms and all of our heads. And then, but then the really amazing thing is that there's actually, you know, thousands if not more, but different pathways to what a future of solutions could look like.
And so when you can come together with people and actually imagine radical meaning grasping at the root, like getting at the root of the problem, imagining what all of this could look like you can start to bridge that gap [00:24:00] because when you're working in that collective, you can start to build out those systems in your local spaces that really show what this future could look like.
And you see that with co ops, you see that with community gardens, you see that with like biking infrastructure and public transit, like you can start to take it as simple as some of the most basic concepts around sustainability and climate action, and just really like nurturing that in your, in your space, starting to understand, oh, I'm actually actively disrupting the system by recycling my can and by sharing clothes and food with my community and how am I, how am I actively disrupting these systems.
Elizabeth: Yeah, I think this is the realization that I've had over the last several years is that you don't have to, it's not like I have to like, all of a sudden go do things that are not in my Purview or even interest levels like I'm not necessarily going to be the one going to do like tech stuff or like somehow single handedly working on like solar [00:25:00] energy. But it's like looking at the spaces that we already exist in the, the skills and the experiences that we have and the passions that we have like Ayanna Elizabeth Johnson's Venn diagram of climate action. It's you know, this in your and where you are at with the people that are around you and there are ways to do it in a really radical way now.
Kat: What I really love about that too, is because climate change is framed in such a scarcity mindset, which makes us all feel like we're constantly grasping. We don't have enough money. We don't have enough time. We don't have enough knowledge or expertise to solve this problem. But by reframing it that way, we're actually in an abundance mindset where there are enough people working on this. I'm not the only one. And all of us have unique skills that we can contribute to this cause, whether you're somebody who loves the garden or loves to sew, like there's something everyone can contribute and you don't have to be the person to save it.
I used to share this with my student team, who all, who would get a little anxious about, you know, they each had different skill sets that they wanted to contribute to the [00:26:00] team, but each one also felt burdened with having to lead the whole movement. And I was like, you know, on Star Trek, we don't need a bunch of Captain Kirk, we need. We need a person running the maps. We need a person navigating things. Like, we don't need one person that's telling everybody what to do because that's not going to get us anywhere. We need the people who are going to facilitate relationships and I don't know that they appreciated the reference, but I think it helped them understand, like, the idea of, like, all the different people, all the different skills that can come together and just kind of how wonderful that is to have a diversity of skills and perspectives.
Elizabeth: So before we end, can you share some resources that you think that folks listening here might be interested in that are related to your work and what. You think will be helpful. Oh, my gosh. Yes. I can I'll link to these on the newsletter as well. So absolutely.
Kat: So there's some great online resources out there, [00:27:00] like the climate mental health network and Anya Kamenetz also has a great regular letter that she sends out as well that I recommend checking out. She has some good communication tools and techniques. And then some of the books I've been referencing today that I just consume and love are things like "Emergent Strategies: Shaping Change for Changing Worlds" by adrienne maree brown. " A Field Guide to Climate Anxiety" by Sarah Jaquette Ray. Oh my gosh, and then. "This Changes Everything: capitalism versus the climate" by Naomi Klein is wonderful. "All We Can Save" is a wonderful collection of anthology of essays as well. Which I'd highly recommend people check out. It's a really great read. "Braiding Sweetgrass" by Robin Wall Kimmerer is a great read. Like, there's just so many, that's the cool thing about all this work is there's so many wonderful books and resources, so we can definitely link to that.
It's funny how all this is emerging at the same time. So I wrote my thesis in 2020 and 2021. And, you know, [00:28:00] half of these like sources and all this literature started coming out in 2020, which was like, it just felt like this really kind of emergent moment where everyone was connecting the dots.
Elizabeth: Yeah. And one, one. A book you recommended to me that then I all of a sudden see everywhere is Generation Dread by Britt Wray. Like that one I mean, it's, I think that her work is very similar and symbiotic with Sarah Jaquette Ray as well. So with that where can people read your work find you?
Kat: Yeah well, you can, always reach out to me at I'm on the list on the Portland Public Schools site if you want to connect at all about climate anxiety and climate justice and education. It's a really exciting movement happening right now. You can also check out the climate anxiety course on the issue website to see a little bit about what that's about. I haven't updated in a while, but I, I do update those illustrations from the workshop called [00:29:00] Envision Our Futures. So it's envision underscore our underscore futures. And that's where I've been posting just a few of the illustrations that we have made from the different workshops. And I plan to post a lot more. So if you've got Anything like that that you want to share. I'm really excited to connect with others.
Elizabeth: Great. And sorry, the envision our futures. Is that Instagram? You said, yeah, that's Instagram. Well, awesome. And Are you planning on doing this course again, the radical imagination course after because this, this next one, the current one, you're, facilitating is from started in June and ends in November, right? And then do you plan to do future ones or is this kind of like we'll see as things come?
Kat: I think we'll see as it goes. I also am more than happy to facilitate these workshops for groups. And so I've worked with different university classes to facilitate this [00:30:00] workshop. I've taught it as like a one credit weekend workshop before.
So I'm, and I've worked with, nonprofits. It's nice when you can have a group of people that work together on the same project, because you can actually take a project or a mission statement or what have you and use it as the project that you're working on through the workshop. So that's something also, if people are interested in, please feel free to reach out to me and I'm happy to, to do that as well. That's always fun. But yeah, we'll see. We'll see what the future brings. I'm kind of letting it be emergent at this point.
Elizabeth: Yeah, that's great. Well, thank you so much for talking with me. It is really just a pleasure connecting with you. And I love hearing about the ideas and concepts that you're working with. And I really love that you're working for my son's school district.
Kat: Yeah, I'm excited to be here. Thanks so much for having me today. It's been fun.
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Climate Ed, Climate Communication and the Hope Gap with Kat Davis- Ep. 3